粵曲粵劇趣味話題 (卷一） 日期：2015/04/26 22:55 留言者：KC 通常網上討論，好易談興正濃離了題！又來不及去談天說地版設題！不如就開個廣濶的題目！ 任大家隨意發揮吧！ （出貼日期：2012年10月21日）上面日期乃本貼修改過的日期！

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Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.1760 ) 日期：2013/02/26 09:59 留言者：小李 ＫＣ　兄， 聽君一席話，　哎，沉痛！ Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.1761 ) 日期：2013/02/26 10:14 留言者：辛奇士 讲番套用《昭君怨》个枝数字歌，系用黎庆贺破四万关既。因为佢成日有40.42.43既数字，好利是。由此想到彼，唐涤生既《钓鱼郎》很多小曲组合，每段一韵。其中有一段正用此谱： 你为赌博累(上合尺上乙已)，发财岂会易(上合尺上乙)，再多的也未够你输(上尺上上乙上上尺)，咪话搭车也嫌迟(反尺反六反尺上)，其实你 更蠢过条薯(上尺反反反六反尺上)，担沙塞海望你来下注(尺反尺上乙上合乙上)，一经恶买你唔着斗气(尺尺上上上合乙上上)，乜咁执输(尺上尺尺)，乜咁执输(尺上尺尺)，想番摊黎就你(尺反尺合乙上)，点会咁相宜(尺上上尺合)，知错经迟(尺上尺合)，怕你唔会种银树噃(上上合上上合乙乙)，身有钱都慢慢去输(六反六六尺尺反六)，不应去赶注(生五六反六)。 若有志於音准与度腔，一系玩乐器，一系唱工尺(要唱埋序)。日子有功，耳轨自然会进步。 另一话题大家可以讨论：粤曲应该雅还是俗？先不表态，且候曲友意见。贴士：唐涤生有雅如仙凤鸣三戏宝，又有俗如《钓鱼郎》；吴一啸、胡文森亦系。 Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.1762 ) 日期：2013/02/26 18:49 留言者：寸草心 辛士兄,撰曲者到家既,咬正廣府字音(間中會用鄉音或土話),加上節拍,就可讀出佢用边支小曲. 廣府字音重有一妙处,好多字都可讀歪D都得: 阿姐可讀阿遮;銀姐,通常讀銀(者);但(銀)姐同(銀)行又唔同! 你介紹釣漁郎該段曲詞真係唔駛譜都唱得到也!黄霑亦係老手! Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.1763 ) 日期：2013/02/26 18:59 留言者：路過 葉紹德生前時常掛在口邊，下等文字，上等工夫。 最絕核的是“咪话搭車也嫌遲，其實你 更蠢過條薯，担沙塞海望你来下注” 反而現在的撰曲者，斧鑿痕跡太深，寫不出以上那些。 Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.1764 ) 日期：2013/02/26 21:26 留言者：寸草心 路過兄:唔好意思,阻阻你, "絕核"即係.......... Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.1765 ) 日期：2013/02/27 00:12 留言者：辛奇士 寸草心兄： 应该系啜核，解作抵死、妙极。 白话声沉，歪的读为增跌宕。 Hawaiian兄： 小礼物已寄出，一星期可到，请查收。 Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.1766 ) 日期：2013/02/27 11:49 留言者：Kc 早晨！早晨！ 43420，024 ，43420••••••••• 哈哈！好應景的音樂！ 填上詞，又另一種味道！ 曾看過華仁的英語粵劇！亦是甚有奇趣！ 有想象力！就有創意！ Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.1767 ) 日期：2013/02/27 11:39 留言者：辛奇士 Kc兄： 您大概是说华仁书院的英语粤剧罢。此事只可当作旁枝小品看，不会成主流。原因很简单，不是理解或接受问题：英文是复音字，汉语是单音字；两者有基本差异。若要求押韵便更难了！ Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.1768 ) 日期：2013/02/27 18:00 留言者：寸草心 #1763,1765. 真背,真个是上網有益! Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.1769 ) 日期：2013/02/27 19:37 留言者：一家言 　　听梁玉嵘唱粤曲好听，听她唱徐小凤的流行曲也几好听（声线接近也），听她用交响乐配器伴奏的《满江红》便“唔多妥”了，这是许多曲友的相同看法。为什么用交响乐配器伴奏的粤曲观（听）众觉得不好听，但她还要这样搞呢？其中的奥妙就不是人人都知道了，据他们曲艺团的人披露说：她的夫君李××是广东星海音乐学院的教授，擅长作曲、配器和指挥，尤其喜欢搞交响乐配器。为此，好多年前广东音乐曲艺团便特别聘请他为艺术指导和指挥，此君也很敢想敢干，他曾将广东音乐的经典作品《雨打芭蕉》和《旱天雷》“改编”为属于李氏“原创”的《雷打芭蕉》，配器公演后有人觉得“都几得意”，但更多的粤乐名家认为他这是在糟蹋经典，有本事你就自己重新写一首出来，不要拿前人的经典作品来“教飞”。 有人还引申说，人家何柳堂创作的《雨打芭蕉》是写意抒情的，其音乐语言表现了雨点洒在蕉林的情景，是润物细无声式的，而雷打（劈）在蕉林上则是灾难性的，对于湛江、万顷沙那些靠种蕉赚钱的人来说，如果“雷打芭蕉”真係死畀你睇都似，那些蕉农直情会“喊”（哭）得一句句！说白了，“雷打芭蕉”毫无艺术性可言，真不知这位李教授的创作灵感从何而来？！平时，曲艺团的演员们轻易都不敢找李教授搞配器，但为老婆的节目搞配器则是份内事，无钱他也会乐意去做，反正曲艺团的大乐队不用也是闲着，而且自己这个艺术指导最怕被话“冇做嘢”，最攞命的的是梁××也希望通过他的交响配器搞点新意思，除了她近年的个唱有让他搞配器伴奏，当然还有这首用交响乐配器，唱到“好似嗌交”的《满江红》！ 一位曲艺团的音乐前辈说，以前的广东音乐曲艺团是“音乐”行头的，因为当时有刘天一（高胡演奏家）、梁秋（喉管演奏家）、方汉（扬琴演奏家）、屈庆（梵铃演奏家）、叶孔昭（弹拨乐器演奏家）等名家撑门面，其中最“杀食”的是他们的“五架头”广东音乐演奏，其他曲艺唱家的演唱则基本上是陪衬性质的。如今世界轮流转，许多音乐名家都陆续辞世了，故而便成了“广东曲艺音乐团”了，眼下在团里“擸网顶”的是他们的团长薛××向媒体介绍的所谓“四大名旦”（四位国家一级演员，即以琵琶弹唱擅长的陈××、擅长星腔的梁××、何×及擅长子喉的李××），音乐则成为陪衬性的了。现今曲艺团里（指在职未退休的）没有一个“担得起”的音乐家，所以他们近年每逢大型的演出，一定少不了一个“踩过界”的卜灿荣，阿卜哥冇错係“有料”，但他毕竟是粤剧团的退休人员，已经年过花甲了，就算他浑身是铁，又打得几多眼钉噃，靠他长期做曲艺团的“外援”也不是办法，曲艺团为乜不抓紧时间培养自己的专业人材呢？ 还有一点请注意，当年京剧的“四大名旦”（梅兰芳、程砚秋、荀慧生、尚小云）因为在台上都是以旦角面向观众的，所以有此称谓，这位团长所称的“四大名旦”，有三个是唱平喉（即唱生角的）的，居然也称他们称为团里的“四大名旦”，佢哋嘅团长真係“羊牯”到加零一。还有一则“国际级”的笑话，前几年他们到维也纳的金色大厅搞了一场名为“天籁之声”的广东音乐专场演出，全场演出以广东音乐演奏为主，中间穿插几段由“四大名旦”的粤曲小调演唱，其中有一首用《昭君怨》填词的《王昭君》，由擅入琵琶弹唱的陈××演唱，此前在国内排练和审查节目时，一直都没有人发现有乜嘢“唔妥”，后来他们载誉归来在广州友谊剧院汇报演出团时，有行内人发现这个节目“认真大件事”——稍有常识的人，都知道唱平喉的是生角演员，而这首《王昭君》里面唱词用的是第一人称来写的，唱的全是她去国和番的凄苦辛酸，如此一来岂不是历史上的王昭君成了男人？这个玩笑也开得太离谱了吧？后来曲艺团的人爆料说，原来陈××是冇份去维也纳的，她于是“嘈”到去市文化局（这次出国演出是由市文化局牵头组织的），考虑到“四大名旦”的平衡，最后便让她准备一个节目出去，但总不能让那些红须绿眼的鬼佬鬼婆听她唱有梆黄的琵琶弹唱，一于事急马行田，係咁意委屈王昭君临时做住一阵男人先！反正鬼佬鬼婆都是如假包换的“羊牯”，他们知道什么中国历史，又知道什么是粤乐的本土特色噃，总之过得海就是神仙，好彩“四大名旦”里面冇人是唱大喉的，如果有的话，她又一定要争取去维也纳演出的话，可能她会用大喉唱《昭君出塞》都似。哗，如果陈××在香港用平喉唱这首《王昭君》，我想佢话唔定会被观众喷到揾窿“捐”（钻），你用平喉唱第一人称嘅王昭君，你当观众係从青山出嚟嘅咩。堂堂广东音乐曲艺团，在这么高规格的出国演出中出这样的洋相，归根结底是他们团是外行领导内行，遇到麻烦事自己做不了主，上面的领导又都是“盲官黑帝”，加上那些“名旦”也太“獬豸”了（音枒炸）。照咁样玩落去，广东音乐曲艺团真係会王小二过年——一年不如一年！ 说到用交响乐伴奏粤曲，应该是好多年前就开始尝试的了，如香港和内地现今唱到街知巷闻的《大断桥》，最早罗家英和李宝莹首唱时也是用交响不来伴奏的（笔者也有此次演出的录音ＣＤ），效果当然是见仁见智。红线女在十多二十年前，也用钢琴伴奏过她唱《昭君出塞》，事后她总结得失时也认为，偶然为之，不失为一种探索，如果要全面在行内推广，就“千祈咪济”。因为用交响乐伴奏，经费开支比用传统的民乐拍和昂贵很多，通常要由专人（通常是交响乐队或交响民乐团的指挥）写好各个声部的和声总谱，光是写谱的费用就要五到十万元，再用三十到六十人左右的乐队配置来演，起码排三到五次，每个乐手出场费三到五百元，这笔花费认真“喇脷”，如果不是政府和有关部门用纳税人的钱来埋单，试问边个老倌出得起这笔开支？事实上，陈××去年也在广州最高卡士的广州大剧院举办过交响乐伴奏的个人粤曲演唱会，当晚现场效果最好的是她用家乡的台山话演唱的台山民歌，胜在朴实无华，一味够草根是也，至于用交响乐来伴奏的粤曲平喉独唱和弹唱，行内人则有此一说——一味得个大声和吵耳，除咗台上红经绿绿几十人够“墟冚”，正式係阿茂整饼——冇嗰样整嗰样！ 辛奇士兄说得不错，粤曲传统拍和讲究追腔，讲究即兴加花，还有一个不容忽视的原因，中国戏曲是以演员为表演和欣赏中心的艺术，它听的就是演员演唱时的韵味和表演的个人特色，如果过分强调伴奏的音乐效果，便很容易喧宾夺主。再说，一个演员再好声，再有唱功，又如何敌得过那几十人的交响乐队呢？所以，用交响乐伴奏粤剧粤曲，一定不能成气候。有人要尝试，尽管让他玩好了，反正水上扒龙船，岸上有人见，到底是好是坏，让他溜出来看看！ Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.1770 ) 日期：2013/02/27 21:19 留言者：辛奇士 哗！一家言君(不知男定女)呢个长帖真系淋漓尽致！读罢不只疼快，更隐隐疼心！忽然记起新马名曲《啼笑姻缘》有几句南音：唉！正系长叹一声，今日人已渺.....。广东曲艺团食皇粮、承皇命，在国外丢人现眼，将置广东曲艺於何地？！他们若敢在香港玩这套，观众肯定杀它个人仰马翻！当年梅兰芳远征日本、美国获得巨大成功，正是原汁原味的京剧，何曾有张冠李戴、猫狗杂配？ 新凡风讲过个故仔畀我听：佢多年前系深圳一曲社约见名旦苏XX，带埋佢既粉丝契妈到(介绍关系是契妈)。新佬慕名久矣，便询问名旦出骚条件。大家讲到高兴，即刻埋咪操《同是天涯沦落人》，讲好唱呢支。点知契妈抢住做代理人，建议伴奏要用香港中乐团，仲话至少要三十人至衬得起名旦咁讲。反而名旦唔好意思话唔使。结果。。。结果咪无疾而终咯，因为唔知仲有几多野跟尾。外行领导内行固可悲，羊牯乱捧偶像亦可笑也！ Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.1771 ) 日期：2013/02/27 21:59 留言者：估得辛苦 请问陈XX是否指陈x玉？梁XX是梁叉荣？何X是否（河平）？李叉叉又是谁？苏叉叉又是谁？请给多一个字我就明白些。

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