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粵曲粵劇趣味話題 (卷一）
日期：2015/04/26 22:55
留言者：KC

(微笑) (微笑) (微笑)通常網上討論，好易談興正濃離了題！又來不及去談天說地版設題！不如就開個廣濶的題目！
任大家隨意發揮吧！ (表情33) (表情33) (表情33) (表情33)
（出貼日期：2012年10月21日）上面日期乃本貼修改過的日期！

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Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.2144 )
日期：2013/03/29 10:33
留言者：辛奇士

唱腔呢家野，唔系奶粉，无须凭晒香港。无包容就好难倾。燕瘦环肥，各有所好。我地唔系唐玄宗，唔使帮硬杨玉环。玄宗最宠杨时都周不时去揾梅妃偷食喇！话大陆无新腔？香港够无喇！香港公认的最後名腔B腔系大陆既噃！话大陆唱野一味有声无腔，喂，大家好钟意既苏春梅又系大陆既噃！呢几年四洲杯金奖得主都系大陆既o者！笑人地粗衣麻布，都要睇睇自己着紧既系烂棉衲吖！系！大陆重美声，美声重则曲味减。我地要讨论既系美声与唱粤曲既矛盾，而唔系标签地域。到尾一句，小弟系唔钟意大陆腔呢个含有贬义既称呼，如果话美声腔条气就顺好多勒。
(表情41) (表情42)

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Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.2145 )
日期：2013/03/29 10:37
留言者：一家言

　　看到网上朋友谈大喉，在下也凑数说上几句。有朋友认为，靓次伯唱的武生才算大喉，熊飞影、白燕仔、蒋艳红等人唱的不算是大喉……要弄清什么人唱的才是真正的大喉，我觉得先要搞清粤曲唱者和粤剧老倌唱大喉之间的区别所在。粤曲歌者——即如今人们常说的曲艺唱家，属于曲艺表演，就其表演特征而言，是在“说（含唱）法中现身”（表现曲中人物），而粤剧表演则是“现身（通过唱念做打）中说法（表现剧中人物）。单就唱功来说，曲艺唱家往往稍胜一筹；粤剧老倌是通过唱念做打来刻画人物的，故而其演绎的角色表曲艺唱家的演唱更富于班味（即行内所说的一紧二慢三宽的舞台节奏）。
　　那么，什么才算是大喉呢？概括地说，在粤剧（曲）行当中，武生、小武、大花脸、二花脸的唱法，在曲艺都统称为大喉。大喉音调比较高亢，旋律比较快速，故在粤曲演唱中，对历代的武将、草泽英雄、鲁莽之夫或奸雄，都以大喉唱出。过去有些颇负名声的大喉唱家，多演唱小武见长，唯熊飞影则兼而备之，诸如关云长、岳武穆、鲁智深、武松、赵子龙、韩信、曹操，熊飞影都能唱出人物性格，尤以演唱二花脸更为出众，有“生张飞”之称。
　　说到有“大喉领袖”之称的曲艺著名唱家熊飞影，考虑到熟悉她的人较少，在此不妨多说几句。熊飞影，原名熊梓卿，一九一一年出生，原籍江西大庾。幼年随父母逃荒至广州，转辗被卖到香港。养母急于从她身上摇出钱来，并不让她上学，七岁就送到小武金山七之妻扁鼻玉处学粤剧花旦。后被粤乐名师梁坤臣发现她声质雄厚，可培养唱大喉，就收在门下学艺。她十三岁登上歌坛，就一鸣惊人。当时社会上每年都有选歌坛花榜之举，熊飞影一连三届获选，因而被尊称为“大喉领袖”。
　　说熊飞影的大喉一鸣惊人，是丝毫也不夸张的。我在学生时代就从电台的粤曲节目中听到过熊飞影的《鲁智深守候野猪林》，我以为这个唱鲁智深的，必定是一个“大只佬”，想不到原来却是个女的，这令我惊佩不已。我相信每个初听熊飞影唱曲的人，都会为熊飞影不但没有一点点女声，而且比男声更为粗犷浑厚、苍劲雄亮而惊叹得拍案叫绝。如今仍健在的著名子喉唱家谭佩仪，有次跟在下饮茶时就说起过这样的趣事，她说熊飞影平时说话粗声粗气，如果说得急促一点，不知情的旁人真会以为她在跟别人“嗌交”，有一次她和熊飞影落乡演出，当地搭的临时舞台十分简陋狭小，她们对唱一首粤曲（曲名记不清了），熊飞影说出“且慢”一句时，谭被她霹雳一般的声音，吓得几乎从台上“舂”咗了下来！
　　唱大喉，先天条件很重要，像熊飞影这样的唱家，放眼如今省港曲坛，可以说是“广陵绝响”矣！靓次伯、罗品超、靓少佳、彭炽权、欧凯明，包括曲艺界的白燕仔、蒋艳红、李丹红、梁玉嵘、王惠兰（白燕仔徒弟）、白燕飞（白燕仔的外孙女徐颖端），甚至任剑辉、陈笑风他们也唱过大喉，就其声音的雄浑苍劲而言，在下以为远未达到熊飞影的境界。
　　说来尤令人称奇的是，熊飞影本来是学唱子喉的，她能练就如此惊人的大喉唱功，除了师傅的悉心栽培之外，熊飞影下的苦功也是不少的。据熊飞影回忆说，她学艺时，每天天未亮就起床，第一件就是吊嗓子，要扎紧腰带，还要用大竹杠顶着腹部来练。练到声沙再继续练到开声，这样开而复沙，沙而开复，反复练，坚持练，才练就这把大喉的。按一般人的身体生理来说，像熊飞影平常说话那种带沙的声音，是不能唱了，可是熊飞影唱起来，却是声宏音亮。在上千群众的广场上演唱，根本不用扩声器，最后排的听众都能听得清清楚楚。所以，“大喉领袖”这个称誉，熊飞影是当之无愧的。
　　熊飞影于上世纪二十年代就蜚声于省港歌乐界，和声（歌林）唱片公司特邀她去灌唱片。一位曲艺名家曾听某音乐老前辈说过：“假如将熊飞影所灌的唱片加起来，可以压死人。”这虽然未免夸大其词，但足以说明熊飞影录过的粤曲唱片确是不少的。其中与源妙生对唱的《喝断长坂桥》、《夜战马超》、《马超追曹》、《单刀赴会》；与张琼仙对唱的《拦江截斗》、《弃楚归汉》；与源妙生、张琼仙对唱的《守华容》、《七擒孟获》等，更是风行一时。

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Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.2146 )
日期：2013/03/29 13:15
留言者：辛奇士

一家言先生：

兄台对熊飞影的身世嘹如指掌，想必行家无疑！此处认文不认人，无须知庐山真面。还请不吝多发言，幸甚！

曲台上(不是CD) 班味与腔味孰佳？颇有争议。小弟是班味派，不同意班味多了腔味便淡了，反觉会令人物更立体，观众更享受。曲艺界中名腔不少，粤剧老倌更多。从前梨园无私家腔便上不了正位。唔同而家学左三五七年，屋企够银纸烧便起班，自当文武生或正印花旦。天下无人，遂令竖子成名，亦令七老八十者仍在舞台上驰骋。後浪无力推前浪，香港粤剧界现况正如此。

兄是大陆人，当知大陆事。小弟想听听您对大陆腔这叫法的感受。

(好!) (表情14)

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Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.2147 )
日期：2013/03/29 13:41
留言者：Kc

(大笑) (大笑) (大笑)立網溜覧將出現五條五現象！

55555 能目睹奇景的人有福了！

因五連環要好耐至有第二次！

下次五連環將會係66666！

(表情33) (表情33) (表情33) (表情33)

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Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.2148 )
日期：2013/03/29 14:10
留言者：路過

小弟亦要請教一家言師兄，有沒有妙生晚年在大陸的資料。

和一些在五十年代中期返回廣州的香港伶人不同，她遲至1959年才從香港返回廣州定居，但當時正屬三年困難時期。

但她在廣州又沒有什麼錄音留下來。 (沉思)

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Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.2149 )
日期：2013/03/29 16:25
留言者：老三

前輩說：聽曲聽味度，看戲看全套。

班味意味是戲味，腔味意味是韻味。

這要看看觀眾的各自水平和取向了。但比例上，眾多名曲中，以韻味取勝的還是占較多些的。技術上，韻味比班味難度高得多了。

大陸腔，既少班味，也全沒韻味。只有歌味、洋味。

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Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.2150 )
日期：2013/03/29 16:34
留言者：諾基亞

女伶所唱之，亦為大喉，此某從來無否定之，唯是只謂大喉裏應分武生，花面，總生，小武，而女伶所唱，多以小武為主。亦以小武為佳。評曲要辨腔，否則論曲無寸度，只以成名為佳，容易以偏概全，以一好為全都好，如飛影，唱花面喉成名，則小武，武生都為領袖，此某所不敢認同，而且成名除真材實料外，還有好多原因。如環境，政治，商業等，不一而足，是故名家還更重應仔細推敲。

考關公此一角色，應以武生喉表演為佳，如靚榮所唱華容道，在土豆可找到，此曲錄音清淅，字字清楚

暗地裏，笑諸葛，行兵顛倒
去大營，欺負我，不是英豪
自幼兒，讀春秋，略韜頗曉
抱不平，打雄虎，怒斬土豪
蒙聖母，賜甘泉，改容換貌
與劉張，同結拜，生死相調
初起手，破黃巾，功勞非小
酒末冷，斬華雄，報效曹操
過五關，誅六將，保護皇嫂
古城外，斬蔡陽，匹馬單刀

以上一段慢板，曲詞平平白白，非常有曲味，再加上靚榮之腔，利落穩重，氣力充沛，高處厚時低處不濁，停頓位合適不累贅，可表現關公氣定神閒自以必勝之象，如飛影之守華容，與諸葛亮爭執，常叫喊，威武雖有而威勢減，是就是暸耳，但不合適，若唱張飛喝斷長板橋，比較相宜。而且該曲末段明顯力有不足。與曲前頭細聽自覺。

亦如某常常談論，甚麼平喉第一，此為設題不當，平喉內有好多角色，要論則要逐種來細論，籠統評之，邏輯顯見混亂。

是否大聲、粗聲就沒有女聲？某終日於街市工作，買魚買菜之女士，個個擘大口喉嚨叫喊，聲極粗而音量亦大，是男子所不及，唯是亦辯得出其為女聲，此如人飲水，冷暖不能口駁，不覺自不覺耳。

如五台山之魯智深，乃花面喉，如白燕仔所唱類小武之腔，唱是唱得非常好，但亦為張冠李戴。唱大喉者，常於曲前來一兩段高腔搶了神，然則後段不夠氣力而多有不覺者。是故大喉講氣力，此為表現英雄人物之基本要素。

辛兄，內外家乃武術之用語，無內家音樂，亦無內家派之書畫，他處亦不見用此詞，如用此詞容易令人錯誤聯想也

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Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.2151 )
日期：2013/03/29 16:45
留言者：諾基亞

班味亦韻味一種，以辛兄之戲班味、唱家味所分別為清淅。

唱家重唱腔，班伶重唱腔之餘還要入戲，此為伶人高一籌之處。

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Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.2152 )
日期：2013/03/29 16:58
留言者：老三

同意對班味韻味字眼上的糾正。


在純對比唱曲上，就不認同伶人高一籌於唱家了。

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Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.2153 )
日期：2013/03/29 18:01
留言者：路過

小弟一直以為總生喉是接近小生喉，但沒有小生喉般尖窄，聽過八大曲幾個總生的角色（如釋妖的蘇東波、魯智深出家的趙員外、棄楚歸漢的蕭何），他們的唱法和現代平喉唱古腔的分別不太大，好像沒什麼"霸"氣。

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Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.2154 )
日期：2013/03/30 14:08
留言者：諾基亞

過路兄，居然有研究八大曲，某不是專家，但有少少意見可參考。在東坡訪友中，唱快中板是一般平喉，但音調擇高來唱，在龍井訪僧中，辯才唱的公腳二王慢板與蘇東坡唱的總生二王慢板分別很大，辯才唱的是一般生喉二王，蘇東坡是唱大喉句格的二王，不過很斯文。霸腔之名從楚霸王別姬一劇而起，與霸氣無關也。蕭何與趙員外則用了公腳喉和生喉來唱，而傳統戲曲之斬二王，宋大祖用總生唱，男綁子之光武帝亦用總生喉唱。最出名之包公戲如三官堂，赤桑鎮，落帽風等亦為總生之角式，即開面總生也。而多用半平霸之唱法，當然，總生亦不是每每唱半平霸，或可唱一般生喉者，要看角色劇情雖要而定，如楊延昭見八賢王，本係武生唱大喉要改唱平喉一樣，現總生已歸類武生，不過總生擔文戲或武戲文做居多，還是有點分別。

阮兆輝演趙德芳，就是用正總生喉來唱，與八大曲之六郎罪子內，周寶玉唱的生喉有不同，有機會可買票看看。便可比較之。

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Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.2155 )
日期：2013/03/29 19:21
留言者：路過

多謝手機兄指教，稍後會找回龍井訪僧及六郎罪子聽聽。

值得一提的，當年錄音八大曲演唱蘇東坡的梁卓華先生，今年已九十二歲，身體仍很硬朗。

(好!)

希望小弟有機會向他請教。

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