粵曲粵劇趣味話題 (卷一） 日期：2015/04/26 22:55 留言者：KC 通常網上討論，好易談興正濃離了題！又來不及去談天說地版設題！不如就開個廣濶的題目！ 任大家隨意發揮吧！ （出貼日期：2012年10月21日）上面日期乃本貼修改過的日期！

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Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.4627 ) 日期：2013/10/02 11:38 留言者：老三 小弟有多少异议； “系咪牛奶咀同曲龄无关系，同功力有关系。”，曲龄二、三年的，任你识飞，都应该脱离不了“牛奶咀”的边界。 国内的绝大部份习曲者和专业人士，都是按简谱去唱，并没有“度腔”这支歌仔唱…，那不是就全都是“牛奶咀”了？ Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.4628 ) 日期：2013/10/02 13:21 留言者：辛奇士 三哥： 照风炉定义，牛奶咀既范围系好大，佢自己系专栏亦承认有D部份仲系牛奶咀级。之咁噃！为统一唱口与乐师用同谱与唱口识唔识度腔唔系一回事噃！您讲您既，佢讲佢既，理解唔同系可以既噃。照您既定义，个的曲龄长，唱黎唱去差多少、无详工尺谱唱唔到（人数唔少）既族群应该点称呼呢又？ Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.4629 ) 日期：2013/10/02 14:22 留言者：老三 有关何谓“牛奶咀”和对“度腔”的老三浅见，老三是有口水喷的…。但现在赶出门回港…。约一星期后续吹…。 Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.4630 ) 日期：2013/10/02 22:00 留言者：麥友成 寸草心你出嚟!講咗出口嘅說話點可以話當冇講過!你講!點賠!沙灘漫漫漫步數星星再睇埋日出夠未。 Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.4631 ) 日期：2013/10/02 23:29 留言者：寸草心 成老兄, 一D都冇錯, 就係沙灘漫步果種情景, 海風習習, 啱啱开始有D feel....唔唔.......居然俾你果味羌葱焗蟹破壞晒! Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.4632 ) 日期：2013/10/02 23:47 留言者：麥友成 今晚操了鐡馬銀婚,十繡香囊果句..且待我青呀亞牙瓦亞雲,學人度腔怒怒呀怒怒"""上,冇收錯,不過唔收貨。 Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.4633 ) 日期：2013/10/03 00:12 留言者：寸草心 咁醒! 文又得武又得! 冇你咁夠羌, 賠舊过我啦! Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.4634 ) 日期：2013/10/03 21:02 留言者：KC 粵曲，現今齋聴的少，多數唱埋嘅多！ 以小弟計，根本唔係好鍾意聽，所以除了新馬之外，好少欣賞D所謂名腔名劇！ 但唱就唔同嘞！閒閒地識唱百零支曲！ 老師教乜就唱乜！ 近排唱埋D什麼潯陽江上悔情慳呀！泣血水繪園呀！估倒你愁呀！ 秋月照離人呀！揮淚別南唐呀！錦江詩魂呀！ 根本聽歌是為了學唱！ 如果唔係學唱，冇心機欣賞D所謂新曲新腔！ 唔知各位又係咪咁呢？ Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.4635 ) 日期：2013/10/03 08:32 留言者：一丁 羌葱焗蟹，夠味！醒神！ Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.4636 ) 日期：2013/10/03 09:41 留言者：一家言 　　看到辛奇士和三哥有关”牛奶嘴“定义的讨论，也想凑热闹说上几句。到底怎样才算真正会唱粤曲？高水平的答案当然是：看着叮板就能唱，其中包括唱梆黄每人有每人的腔口，用三哥和辛厅士兄的话说，是唱者会自己“度腔”，这当然是没有问题的结论。如果退而求其次，看着有工尺谱的曲纸，无论是梆黄和小曲，自己都能顺畅完整地唱出来，在下觉得这也可以说是会唱粤曲了。 　　为什么这样说呢？因为如今深圳罗湖乐社和香港社团传唱的粤曲，很大一部分都是连梆黄（甚至是滚花、木鱼）都标上了工尺的，如果演唱时唱者都不依或大部分不依照曲纸上的工尺谱来唱，你说这样行不行，当然行，但效果一定会打折扣。为此，许多唱者和乐队师傅为图彼此方便，大都会依照工尺谱“照本宣科”。以我这么多年的留心观察，如果是有唱功和水平的唱家，即便是临时看着工尺谱来“吞生蛇”，他原来唱曲有味道的还是会有味道，只不过没有唱熟曲那么娴熟罢了；如果他平时没有唱曲的基本功，即便他看着梆黄只标有叮板的曲纸来唱，也未见得就会有什么韵味。 　　曾经听香港一位很资深的子喉唱家说，现时许多阿太喜欢找香港和内地的某某文武生来陪唱出骚，说真的这些专业老倌会有多少时间用来陪这些阿太操曲，一般情况是出骚前大操一次，仅此而已。很多时往往是在后台化妆时才问：乜乜太，今晚唱的是什么曲，唔该拿份曲纸给我看一看。你说在这种情形下，且出骚唱的往往又是有这样那样唱腔设计的新曲，你说这些老倌真会飞呀？当然只能是老老实实看着工尺谱“唱谱”交功课了！说得不好听，在这种“台上见”的紧要关头，他能唱到唔甩唔撞板就拜托了，你还想他度腔来唱，你想都别想！ 　　当然，不同层次的人在这方面会有不同的要求。我就曾听杨石渠先生说，他们平时唱曲时看的曲纸是只有叮板，有时甚至连叮板也没有标上的，全凭唱者临时即兴发挥，这也然也是唱粤曲的一种方法，而且还是一种高水平和高境界的方法。但平心而论，这种唱法只适用于唱一些相对简单的曲目，如今的粤曲不知比《花田错会》、《紫凤楼》、《还琴记》复杂了几多倍，又是变调的，又是二部唱的，最近听说在何华栈的个唱上还有几十个人一起参加和唱的，弄到如此复杂，不要说没有叮板唱不了，有的地方少标了一个音符都会出错呢！你说在这种情形下，在这样新潮复杂的曲目前，你还能“度腔”来演唱吗？ 　　有人会说，其实粤曲是很草根的东西，没必要搞到像西洋交响乐那么复杂和花哨，我也同意这个观点。如果唱粤曲的是什么人，除了很少数的职业演员，绝大多数是没有什么文化，唱曲纯粹是为了消遣的中老年女性。而且我还认为粤曲的唱词也不宜弄到骈文那么华丽深奥，因为唱词一听就要明白，听众不可能揣本《康熙字典》和《古文词类纂》去听你的粤曲演唱会。清代很有名的戏曲理论家李渔（笠翁）就曾说过，能于浅处见才，方是大手笔！他认为，戏曲唱词是写给少数有文化的士子，更主要的是写给更多没有文化的妇孺、贩夫引浆者流听的，所以非浅白平易不可。如果要炫耀个人的文采，那么自己关起门写古诗和填词好了！ Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.4637 ) 日期：2013/10/03 10:39 留言者：新凡风 一家言先生的言论掷地有声！曲辞以通(浅易)、贴(合角色)为贵，不以雅俗分高低。区区对业余拖老倌或名家配搭不感冒，除非业余有相当实力，能逼专业／名家使出真功夫。不是说笑，真见过业余赢专业，畀介胜受介。出现这情况很多是因准备的差距。观众可不管这些，他们觉得爽因为以後几天多了一个热论话题。 区区对牛奶咀的定义是无度腔能力，而不是说逢唱必度腔。可以这样测验：随便选一首没有和唱、没有复杂音乐设计、有小曲工尺但没有梆簧工尺、不是熟唱的社团曲；给半个局(二小时)时间准备然後吞生蛇，看能否唱出个谱来。 唱工与曲龄没有绝对关系。少林寺门前那个帚树叶的老和尚干了几十年始终未得佛法，成不了高僧！ Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.4638 ) 日期：2013/10/03 12:31 留言者：一丁 牛奶咀，泛指飲牛奶一族，本無貶意， 殘廢餐，指有手有腳都唔用，當自己係廢既，實有貶意。 飲牛奶飲得開心，舒服，適合自已腸胃，又唔係想做高僧，咪唔戒囉，點解唔可以？ 點解要被指為食殘廢餐呢？？？

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