粵曲粵劇趣味話題 (卷一） 日期：2015/04/26 22:55 留言者：KC 通常網上討論，好易談興正濃離了題！又來不及去談天說地版設題！不如就開個廣濶的題目！ 任大家隨意發揮吧！ （出貼日期：2012年10月21日）上面日期乃本貼修改過的日期！

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Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.2156 ) 日期：2013/03/30 08:32 留言者：阿立 test 已修復。 Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.2157 ) 日期：2013/03/30 09:51 留言者：Kc 早晨！早晨！多謝立兄費神！ 錯過了55555! 人生不如意事，十常八九！小事一椿而已！ 水繼續吹可也！ 多了手機兄，一家言兄，路過兄助拳！ 還愁66666不成？ Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.2158 ) 日期：2013/03/30 11:06 留言者：辛奇士 定义不同，结论自异。小弟所说的班味，是专指曲台上而不是大戏里的，也就是腔味 + 戏味 + 情味 +人(物)味，亦即是全面演绎。故不同意班味增则腔味减；两者是母子而不是竟争者的关系。曲骚无戏服，亦无脸谱；欲感动(比撩耳层次更高)观众，不能单靠唱腔。君不见庙街歌坛之惨淡乎？ 关羽、岳飞、周瑜皆儒将，虽有虎气却不是老粗；然又有不同。关骄矜、岳愚忠、周忌才。性格的缺点要了他们的命。演绎时性格特点要显现出来。熊飞影唱《岳飞穆班师》是有点过了。张飞、鲁智深、李逵自是比关、岳、周粗犷，炸音用得上。不过小弟不赞成一粗到底，情绪应随曲情的演进作适当的变化。熊飞影的曲，听一两支好正，若一直听下去耳膜不好受。小弟反而钟意听白燕仔，一紧二慢三宽，声壮而圆，有声不乱使，不同人物有不同演绎，正！ 诺基亚兄： 小弟得闲无事，钟意自度新词。内家者，气质、学养之内在修炼是也。 Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.2159 ) 日期：2013/03/30 12:36 留言者：老三 辛兄 閣下把班味描述得這麽優異和全材，當然是無得頂了。奈何現實中，能達到如此水平的，連現今的老倌名家也難做得到此地步了。單是唱得動聽撩耳，勝任者都不怎多，羊牯的做手，"無敵"的身裁，獻丑不若藏拙好呵。 "庙街歌坛"？把觀眾客人放血的地方，老早被免費曲騷搶走了觀眾了。 Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.2160 ) 日期：2013/03/30 14:19 留言者：辛奇士 三哥： 少至矜贵吖麻！ 老倌同唱家的称谓，好多时名不副实。老倌＝ (私家腔+ 行家公认绝活＋经典开山剧、曲+戏迷通宵排队买飞)是也。梁汉威生前讲过，香港粤剧界已无老倌(包括佢自己)。勉强凑数有一个，阮兆辉半边明月＋尤声普半边明月，合起来始算一轮明月也。 Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.2161 ) 日期：2013/03/30 17:37 留言者：一家言 　　看到网上的曲友谈论大喉的跟帖，在下是喜中有忧，喜的是大家能畅所欲言，就大家关心的问题各抒己见，忧的是透过一些言论的字里行间，隐约觉得其中有些“火药味”。之所以如此，可能是因为地域上造成的成见，也可能是因为希望用自己的观点影响别人，总之凡事过了头，事情便会走向另一面。 　　辛奇士先生想我谈谈对“大陆腔”这一说法的感受，如果我没有会错意的话，这个称谓绝对是含有贬意的，正如早些年香港人侮辱内地人说的“阿灿”一样，幸好我不是专业老倌，不妨从一个戏迷或听众的角度，谈谈我对所谓“大陆腔”的个人看法。 　　何为“大陆腔”？以我个人的理解，大概就是指内地粤剧老倌演戏（含唱曲）或曲艺唱家唱曲时刻意炫耀声音条件（即所谓的“卖声”），而缺乏香港观众所热衷追求的那种细腻韵味的唱法吧？其实提出所谓“大陆腔”的人，他（她）听过多少个内地人唱曲呢？十个老倌？还是三十个老倌？总不会超过一百个吧？！盲人摸象为何不得要领，就是因为犯了一叶障目的错误。我认为，要研究一种现象或征结，不能撇开相关的客观存在来讨论。 　　其实，有机会到香港陪那些太级闺秀出骚的有名望的粤剧花旦和文武生，我扳着手指头来算，总数不会超过四十人！广东省有多少人唱粤曲，据广东省曲协粗略的统计，大概有七到八万人喜欢唱粤曲，那些有机会到香港“受介”揾食的老倌和唱家只占“大陆”唱务粤曲的人总数中的七八万分之三四十，这个份额充其量只是一个极少数，即使这三四十人唱曲时都注重炫耀自己的声音，怎么就能代表所有内地唱粤曲的人的特点而名之为“大陆腔”呢？ 　　“大陆”是什么概念？当年老一辈蒋先生说的“反攻大陆”是希望卷土重来，重新统治中国大陆，历史早已证明这只是痴心妄想。在此，不妨将范围缩小一点来谈，就说广东省吧。光是省府广州市（如今已扩大到番禺区），光是粤曲私伙局有七八千个，一个局算十个人吧，这一万个私伙局便有七八万个人唱粤曲，你都听过他们唱曲都是用“大陆腔”的吗？区区那二三十个来香港唱曲的老倌和唱家的唱法，即使存在着这样那样的不足，又岂能以偏盖全地贬之为“有声无味”的“大陆腔”呢？若问我对于“大陆腔”的说法有什么“感受”？“感受”当然有，而且还很不少呢！不过，在谈我的个人“感受”之前，我想先从另一个角度提出问题：香港的不少唱家在广州和广州本地的唱家同台演出或清一色香港唱家在广州登台出骚演唱时（或伙拍内地的专业老倌唱曲时），很多时都因为“无声”（声音太小和听不清在唱什么）而被广州的听众和观众讥之为在台上“发紧开口梦”，不知香港的观众和唱家听到广州的观众如是评价他们在台上的演唱，又有什么一番感受呢？如果我说所有香港人唱曲都是在台上“发开口梦”，会不会“犯众憎”而招至香港人群起而攻之？ 　　溯本追源，所谓“大陆腔”的出现和流播有其历史原因，在此试分析如下。其一，广东省培养粤剧表演人才的最高学府——广东粤剧学校成立于1959年，首任校长是著名老倌白驹荣前辈。从办学伊始，该校对学生的声音训练、形体动作、把子功、文化学习等方面就有一整套长达六年的系统课程。粤剧表演讲究声、色、艺，既然“声”排在第一位，老师对学生的声音的训练自然格外重视，行内有“一声压三丑”之说，如果经过六年的学习，学生的“声”没有过人之处，或在发声技巧上有什么缺失，那他（她）将来成为正印文武生和花旦的机会便会微乎其微，所以在广东粤剧学校或湛江小孔雀剧校毕业出来的花旦（如林锦屏、曹秀琴、郭凤女、苏春梅、蒋文端、曾小敏）和文武生（如彭炽权、黄伟坤、黎骏声、梁兆明、李秋元）通常都比较能唱，这是因为在学校时老师比较注重学生声音的训练。可以说，毕业时如果演员“无声”，基本上很难被省市粤剧团录用，因为内地粤剧团要到南（海）番（禺）顺（德）和粤东一带演出，很从时是露天搭个简陋的舞台就演戏，音响条件比不得香港都是有瓦遮头的剧场，加上下乡演出现场比较嘈杂，如果演员声音不能“落棚”（送达至后排），便会使演出效果大打折扣。为此，专业演员慢慢在台上便形成了一种习惯，开口就要发力唱，因为谁都不想被观众说成是在台上“发紧开口梦”！ 　　后来“文革”后，广东粤剧学校增设了培养曲艺演员和木偶剧演员的曲艺班，如今颇有名气的梁玉嵘、李敏华等人就是曲艺班的学生。作为专业演员，他们在学校对声音的训练要求是比较严格的。当然也就不可避免他们会较注重声音的使用和训练，从而忽略了对个人演唱时韵味的探索和钻研。——这是很容易理解的，当然不是说其中没有值得改进之处。其二，内地的观众和戏迷，这些年在台上看惯了这些“有声”和“好声”的演员演出和演唱，耳濡目染之下，等到他们也有机会上台唱曲，首先就是让观众听清自己在唱什么，所以往往都比较注重咬字的清晰和行腔的连贯，这大概就是所谓的“大陆腔”的成因吧！ 　　其实，在下对只重声音不讲究韵味的唱法从不护短，否则我也不会长期钟情于细腻耐听的“风腔”，其实香港老倌的表演和唱家的唱法就真那么无懈可击和尽善尽美吗？我看也不见得。有位在香港颇有名气的文武生，录了一首《新霸王别姬》，他根本就是用靓仔文武生的唱法来唱的，完全没有按照传统中的“花脸”来演绎，唱碟封面上的“霸王”既不“开面”，甚至连须都没挂，这在内地许多粤剧前辈和戏迷看来，是百分之一百的“羊牯”，穿戏服尚且要求“宁穿破，莫穿错”，你把人物角色的行当和身份都弄错了，还有什么可谈？如此“大件事”怎不听闻哪位香港前辈出来骂旭哥“倒乱砖头”和数典忘祖？还有两位一直在香港的粤剧团做正印文武生的老倌，用罗家宝的话说：佢哋两个在台上扬手扬脚，在内地的省市团根本冇得扎，但香港缺乏人才，只能廖化做先锋，将就吧！ 　　还是那句话，寸有所长，尺有所短，人无完人，金无足赤。缘于各人的审美追求和生活习惯，粤港两地的粤剧和曲艺同行生活环境不尽相同，在艺术上存在差异是很正常的，衷心希望两地的粤剧同行和曲艺唱家舍弃那种负面的揶揄和嘲讽，代之以推己及人，互相取长补短的积极态度，就一定能消除隔阂，增加沟通，共同进步！ Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.2162 ) 日期：2013/03/30 18:26 留言者：寸草心 再謝立哥! 舒服晒! Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.2163 ) 日期：2013/03/31 00:34 留言者：Kc 大陸腔曾在此，二零一零年。，論戰了三十五頁！ 有興趣可看看當年的論述！ 小弟都有份發聲嫁！ 在首頁上面的：投稿檢索。版面 打入大陸腔三字，就可搵倒！ 留意：大陸腔係用泥話d唔夠班香港唱口居多！ 較少用係話夠班D大陸唱口的！亦同大陸人無關！大家請留意！ 而家睇番都好有趣！辛兄：如果你有耐性睇下！ 相信你會有不同看法！記住由三十五頁睇番轉頭！因最先回貼排在最後也！ 當年發言班朋友都有料嫁！ 其中一個就係小弟囉！ 忘記了為一家言兄鼓掌添！ Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.2164 ) 日期：2013/03/31 00:24 留言者：Kc 重溫了當年大家對大陸腔的回應，的確感觸良多！ 人由於有成見，偏見，自以為是，執著，很易畫地為牢！ 爭執亦因此而起！ 很多誤解，曲解，不解亦因此而生！ 時至今日，歷史又重演乎？ Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.2165 ) 日期：2013/03/31 01:13 留言者：TL 大蝦越來越多，此帖漸入佳境矣! 兩地演唱風格有異是客觀事實，只要不是敵意，或褒或貶又何妨？用我一個研究藝術理論的師兄的話說：沒有偏見，也就沒有流派。 奇士兄：世無英雄，遂使豎子成名。出處見阮籍傳“時無英雄使豎子成名”。 Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.2166 ) 日期：2013/03/31 08:51 留言者：Kc 早晨！早晨！又向六萬關進發！ 水繼續吹可也！ 言論自由！ 各舒已見可也！ Re: 粵曲粵劇趣味話題 ( No.2167 ) 日期：2013/03/31 10:28 留言者：辛奇士 Kc兄： 未暇阅读当时「大陆腔」的辩论。若定义如兄所言，何不叫牛奶腔、羊牯腔、嗌声腔或有声无味腔，而偏要作地域标签？点解唔叫香港腔？无论如何，小弟不接受这个影响两地曲友友谊既无厘头名词，见一次讲一次！ 一家言兄： 拜读高见，小弟有同意的，亦有不同意的。以量而言，曲艺前景应在广东。不只一次，小弟参与广州私家局和欣赏酒楼歌坛，平均唱者水准相当高而年龄又相对地少。曲艺需要新鲜血液，小弟只有开心而无嫉妒。粤港曲艺一家亲，谁曰不宜？不过，小弟不同意广东粤剧学校招生偏重声线。一声遮三丑，却不能大杀三方者也。若以声为选苗标准，其唱科训练，又以练声为主；则有天份而无靓声者永无入读之日矣，遑论出头哉？这令小弟想起足球。球王比利、马勒当拿、美斯等身材皆非高大，其惊人成就出自本身的技术、球感、意识、智慧等软条件。中国足球的衰落，原因很多。主因之一就是选材首重身体硬件，训练强调对抗性。上场只识蛮干如斗牛。十几亿人的中国，如今国际足球排名已沦落至一百名之外矣！小弟认为戏曲选材必以悟性为首。省内之重声也，经几十年文艺路线之反复强调，恐已深入各有关专业单位乃至民间，积重难返矣。声腔并重如苏春梅、蒋文端、黎骏声者毕竟是少数。而他们的转呔，亦可能与香港戏曲迷的口味有关。香港虽少，传统品味未有断层，亦无上行下效之事也。 TL兄： 感谢提点。

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