 Re: 工尺譜 ( No.11 ) |
日期：2004/12/03 17:53
留言者：venus
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Kentsifu,
你好! 有個問題憋在心中很久了, 請指教。
有說: 梆子和二王各有獨特的格調, 一聽就分得出。
(聽板面或收腔或以句數格式來分不算數, 是否以追腔來分別呢? 但似乎所指的是調子味道之類....)
我一直都分不出它兩的不同 何所指!
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| Re: 工尺譜 ( No.12 ) |
日期：2004/12/03 19:17
留言者：萍萍芬
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KenSifu
Thanks for the prompt response. I choose to use English as a means of communication is
only because of convenience. The Chinese characters in the previous email are by "copy &
paste".
I could not agree with you more than what you have said about the issue that I want to
know about. And thanks once again for the critical and pertinent ananlysis, in which I
benefit a lot out of it. Thanks.
Cheers
萍萍芬
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| Re: 工尺譜 ( No.13 ) |
日期：2004/12/03 19:25
留言者：kentSifu
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venus
主要是唱法不同,所以意味不同.
梆子:
發源地----關中
特徵----宮(上)商(尺)角(工)徵(六)羽(五)五正音為主音,偏音(乙)(反)是附助音,滑音
句式----句分上下;上(仄)、下(平);句分頓, 每頓有過門; 大、平、子喉頓音唱法不同
板腔音樂----慢板(板、叮、叮、叮),中板(板叮),快板(板),首板,倒(導)板、煞板、滾花(自由板)
音樂----齊口,引,以宮調為主
過門---由頓音決定
二王:
發源地----華中
特徵----徵(合)羽(士)偏宮(乙)宮(上)商(尺)角(工)清角(反)七音為主音
句式----句分上下;上句商調(仄)、下句徵調(平);句分頓, 頓有長短過門; 平子喉頓音唱法一樣
板腔音樂----慢板(板、叮、叮、叮),二流(板),首板,滚花(自由板)
音樂----引(頭架),唱口領唱(冇音樂),隨(音樂隨步跟上),補(填上花音),追(音樂跟唱口重覆唱法);以徵調為主
過門----于格式時間內重覆唱法於頓音之後,音至重覆頓音止,頭架加引音
梆簧:
發源地----廣東
特徵----格式混合應用,中板格式音位跟梆子,過門有時跟二王格式重覆唱音有時跟頓音,如反綫中板(宮調,平仄跟正綫相反);二王格式音位跟二王,過門跟梆子,如反綫二王(上句徵調,下句商調,平仄跟正綫相反).乙反格式跟反線一樣,音位則跟正綫,工音改用反音,士音改用乙音.頓位用偏音仄聲(乙,反),句位用正音(尺,上,合)
句式----句分上下, 不分平子喉唱法
過門----中板跟二王;二王跟頓音
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| Re: 工尺譜 ( No.14 ) |
日期：2004/12/03 19:47
留言者：kentSifu
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Kelly 兄:
音高是指絕對音高,absolute pitch, 不是唱音的關係,而是樂器上的音位. 正確是每段曲的spectral density, 平均在高胡上那個把位那個音位.
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庵遇的尺五綫秋江別的"彳工"音是高胡一把的尾指,等於A4,亦即正綫的”五”音.
描容的士工綫的江河水要玩到高胡二把,用二胡要到三把位,所以更高.
尺五綫在高胡是F調,士工綫在高胡是Bb調,跟據平常的理解Bb調要比F調低, 但為甚麽江河水比秋江別高呢？
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| Re: 工尺譜 ( No.15 ) |
日期：2004/12/03 20:39
留言者：老黄
電郵：hsz1949@msn.com
網頁：http://hsz.xp.fm
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kentSifu兄：
真是十分佩服你对粤曲的精辟论述，真使小弟获益良多，茅塞减半。我建议你把你的粤曲理论知识、实践经验，系统整理出来，贴到立兄的“学曲笔记”栏目上，让我们这些“半桶水”，知多D，对繁荣粤曲，将功不可灭。我们都会感激你。希望kentSifu兄当仁不让，敲敲键盘啦,kentSifu兄。 |
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| Re: 工尺譜 ( No.16 ) |
日期：2004/12/13 20:23
留言者：KELLY
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kentSifu：
很多謝你的解答。但由於我的樂理水平有限，仍有些不明之處需要請教，幸勿見怪。
(1) 二胡是以D、A定弦，二胡的「仜乙線」與高胡的「士工線」是同一個調(Bb)，請問是不是因此「描容的士工綫的江河水要玩到高胡二把，用二胡要到三把位,所以更高」？
(2) 照我的理解，在粵曲來說，最常用的四組線，由高至低依次序排列是：「合尺線」、「士工線」、「上六線」、「尺五線」。所以，《江河水》會比《秋江別》高。請問這個說法是否正確？
再次多謝你的指教。
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| Re: 工尺譜 ( No.17 ) |
日期：2004/12/13 12:53
留言者：李維
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 哈哈﹗﹗o甘熱鬧﹐我也來襯高興。
“庵遇”尺五"線秋江"別最高的音是第一個字“飄”﹐是F調的高音3﹐等于士工線Bb的7b。“描容”士工線“江河水” 最高音是第十五個字“多”﹐是Bb的高音1﹐即是F調的高音4。所以“多”高過“飄”半個音. 
再進一步說﹕在鋼琴琴鍵上“飄”是高A鍵﹐“多”是Bb鍵。這樣說明嗎﹖  |
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| Re: 工尺譜 ( No.18 ) |
日期：2004/12/13 20:22
留言者：KELLY
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李維先生：
完全明白了，多謝你。 |
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| Re: 工尺譜 ( No.19 ) |
日期：2004/12/24 02:01
留言者：venus
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有些問題似曾相識, 卻又不太肯定, 請指教!
反線小曲 是否此類小曲多是比較淒苦的?
反線小曲 是否唱時要用比正線低四度聲線去唱呢?
反線小曲 是否其工尺譜跟正線的不一樣?
反線小曲 開心的曲種會否設計用反線去唱呢?
梆子 是否用來演譯一些比較輕鬆的情緒?
二王 是否用來演譯些比較苦的情緒? 是否整段曲的線 比梆子略低? (因為合尺比士工音低之故?)
反線梆王 為什麼要設計反線來唱?
是因為曲的本身音域太高, 為遷就唱者聲線應付不來而設計用反線唱?
是因為曲的本身音域不高, 為特別表現唱者的唵亮高音域聲線而設計用反線唱？
為什麼唱反線梆王, 有時會全段唱低四度, 有時又會全段唱高四度呢?
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| Re: 工尺譜 ( No.20 ) |
日期：2004/12/24 01:19
留言者：sam
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Venus dear,
Not being a learned person in opera i really cannot satisfy your thirst for knowledge. I have said many times before that i am only an instrument technician and cannot teach anything about singing. Risking me offending many many people i always emphasize that we should embrace our art but to do that we have to respect it too.
What i mean is that singers have to look deep down as to why they want to sing. If they sing opera as if they are pop songs i feel that that is sad. Opera is an art. Unless people take it seriously then they are mocking their own culture. Fortunately i am sure that most of these people may not realise that that is what they are doing to Opera, at least that is not their intention to do so.
To respect opera is to learnt it seriously. To do this one has to learn at least the basics so they actually know what they are singing. Not just 'lim hau wong'. Lim hau wong only give you so much fun. But one cannot build on it. My simple basic requirements are timing and singing in tune. I have to repeat my previous saying (again risking me offending people) there are too many myths in opera culture and not enough proper teaching. Many are willing to teach, some have no idea themselves, some very knowledgeable ones but they not know how to teach.
A major problem is that most opera fans start their hobby when grown up. May not have any knowledge in the rudiments of music. They need simple, easy to understand type of teaching.
for example when you ask "反線小曲 是否唱時要用比正線低四度聲線去唱呢?
this tells me that you have not digested and absorbed your knowledge. By answering yes( and the simplest answer is yes)...this does not make your undestnading of music any better.
"為什麼唱反線梆王, 有時會全段唱低四度, 有時又會全段唱高四度呢"...same argument for this question
next example
反線小曲 是否其工尺譜跟正線的不一樣?
answer: 反線小曲 其工尺譜跟正線的 is 一樣.
But Do you really understand what i mean?
I cannot answer other non technical questions simply becasue i do not know either. I suggest you to learn 1234567 rather than 工尺譜. And hope you find someone who can give you simple, easy to absorb guidance to your quest for knowledge.
You are a serious fan!!!
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| Re: 工尺譜 ( No.21 ) |
日期：2004/12/28 19:34
留言者：曲迷
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Kentsifu：
佩服你对粤曲的知識。我與朋友談及士工中板句式時，他說中板沒有活動句不同二王及慢板。故向閣下請教同時希望有例句如某曲.....。謝謝！
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| Re: 工尺譜 ( No.23 ) |
日期：2004/12/29 09:40
留言者：qq
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小venus,
Ah Sam 哥在上文巳经答了你啦！
不過各路高人可否再用中文再答多次呢?  |
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工尺譜